UGN Security Forums UGN Security: Underground Off Topic Debates & Rants Communism sucks

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A funny book raggin on Communism: Utopia by Thomas More.

wonder if you all people knows what communism is...do you know it's not based on dictatorship? i've read some [censored] saying it's like direct democracy. as far as i know, ppl in here pretty much are a bunch of democrats, yes? please explain the differance.

No one ever said it was a dictatorship. We know what it is, thanks.

then i must ask, wats wrong with it exactly? is it because of who the economy would be run? is it because the boringness of not getting to be special or maybe greed? i don't know. i think every country should be like switzerland.=)

Why should every country be like Switzerland? Are you from Switzerland? If not, do you know how the economy and society works there?

blah blah blah.. people in here democrats? yeah.. seems some are. but ya know what? communism is the most extreme form of socialism. democrats are usually liberal. (note: i said USUALLY not ALWAYS) liberals are socialists. so i don't know exactly what you were trying to say there with that. oh well.

[censored] communism. fascism all the [censored] way.

Well socialism is just complete liberalism. Communism is the idea that socialism can only be achieved through a violent overthrow of the government. Democracy (as in the Democractic party) is more moderate liberalism. pergism all the [censored] way.

Pergism is unrealistic. (har har)

The reason why communism is so not cool is because the government controls everything. Sure, you may THINK it controls greed, cause people can't start up a business and make profits and stuff. However, what about the government? They're in complete control with no checks and balances like a democracy to help prevent corrupt governments. A select few are rich mother [censored] and the rest play out an uncreative life.

The other reason is because innovation is discouraged. Let's say you thought up some new invention - but it has a few quirks - but if you get it going, it'll be really great for people to use. However, in a communist society where's the motivation to create it? The government will seize control over the project and you don't get to see [censored] for it. So nothing happens and technology progresses much slower than it would otherwise.

That's the whole "free" mantra that americans like to chant. We are free to own our houses and own our cars and own our businesses and take our income and buy whatever we want, go wherever we wanna go. If you gripe about how much control the U.S. government has over our lives NOW... Big brother will be a heck of a lot bigger and pushy if it was communism.

yeah. SR's reasons work too

check out the USA, the proof that you can't let the stupid people (read most people) loose. 11000 killings a year. canada, like 65 or something, or japan 30 or something. i don't think the american way works.cause it doesn't work for everybody.

sry if i'm out of topic.
communism really suck because of hard control. american democracy suck because of no control. 'cept of the media control.

yeah, you are off topic. Japan is under a democracy, not communism. Don't try to bring up facts that have nothing to do with the debate. That only has to do with gun control laws and various other laws, not to mention the way a person is raised, and the culture they grow up in.

Guess what, canada is a democracy too.

Don't diss the system just because there's 11000 killings a year. Totally irrelevent.

I hereby move the first topic to the debate forum.

I'm not positive, but I am pretty sure dictators use Communism to get power. It appeals to people in the lowest class, which is the majority it seems in the countries where communism took over. They tell the people about how everyone can be equal and the people with less like that.

I wouldn't say communism sucks, but it doesn't work. Also, I think saying communism is an extreme form of socialism is like saying socialism is a mix of communism and free-enterprise/democracy.

Dude, I'm pretty sure you just comitted thought crime.

And, I don't really keep up on Canada, but isn't their head of the exective branch a queen? who is also the queen of England? well at least right now it is.

lol, don't you dare say that Canada is a monarchy! Or even Britain for that matter. The queen of england is only symbolic - a figurehead. She has no power. If the Prime Minister of England says "let's go to war" and the Queen of England says "uh, no". Guess what happens? The country goes to war - of course if the parliament agreed. It is a democracy.

I know it's a democracy, but she is the queen of england and canada at the same time, right?

Anybody here read 1984 by Orwell? Good book-probably my favorite-I think it indicates where Soacilism will eventually lead us- sure there's no crime and everybody is happy but thats because they dont know anybetter they've all been brainwashed so bad that when the government says ur happy they just are, this is demonstrated very vividly in the scene where there is a metting in the city center where they are parading prisoners of a country they have been at war with(there's only 3 countries) then mid speech the speaker "corrects himself" and states that he had said the wrong country they had been at war with and the prisoners where actually from the other country- then the crowd just accepted it and acted like the war had always been with that country and the other had always been there ally- very creepy
sry bout the long post

The Soviet Union is a prime example of dicatorial communism. The idea behind communism was a "society without money, without a state, without property and without social classes" or something like that so it would eliminate supposedly greed. Cuba and China's the only ones left to be Communists. Look where it's got them.

I wouldn't say Communism sucks, the 3 countries i mentioned above became corrupt which is may they failed(failing). The basic ideals such as how economic(trading -> import/exports) would be determined, a fair and balenced(democratic type) governing party with checks and balences, and so on would need to be refined and dealt with.

I read 1984 a few years ago. I would say that's a worst case senario. I was almost thinking that those other other countries did not exist, probably the underground either. Just another type of control so the government knows who to watch out for. I mean, for a country to be at war, gives them logical right to keep strict power over it's people(martial law) so to say. Instead of them not being at war, in which the people might actually start thinking why their life sucks and their govt isn't doing anything.


Just my 2 cents.

Communism is the top 10% controlling everything,and the rest of th ppl get screwed.
American Communism is the church + the republicans controlling everything, and everybody else gets screwed.
Not much difference there.

I'm just here to set you guys strait. Communism and socialism are purely democratic. Stalinism, the kind of socialism exhibited in the Soviet Union, was not democratic. But in their forms as put down by Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Gramsci, is entirely Democratic and egalitarian. Those of you who only look at the American propagandized version of history will obviously fail to see that. Even when Marx said the word dictatorship he meant it only in the sense that a social democracy will only serve the interests of the lower classes. As for violent revolution, that was the course of change in the late nineteenth century. Now we have routes for peaceful change such as demonstrations, elections, etc. So they were simply "victims of their time" when they said that violent revolution was the only course of change. When it comes to "Big Brother," you Americans have secret police state where you are watched without knowing about it. At any time you are outdoors, you had better suspect yourself of being watched. Cuba , on the other hand, is a success story for the third world. Castro has been delayed in bringing in democracy because of America's constant efforts to destabilize the Cuban government and economy. He has thus had to sacrifice rights for the sake of security. That is not a move I necessarily agree with, but is understandable considering the circumstances. Socially Castro has been a godsend to his people. Before the Revolution, Cuba had one of the lowest literacy rates and one of the highest poverty rates in the western hemisphere, as well as an almost nonexistent or inaccessible health care system. Now they have the Third highest literacy rate in the western hemisphere, a much more equal distribution of wealth, and basic health care is provided to all people, something even the great and invincible America has yet to grant its citizens. their economy grew by more than eight percent last year, much faster than the American economy. All this from a country that had ninety percent of its business interrupted by the American embargo after the Revolution. In an economic point of view, true communism as Marx designed would also not put a damper on the creativity and ingenuity of its citizens. If you wanted to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or an inventor nothing would stop you from becoming that and getting the higher education necessary just because you wouldn't be made more than anyone else. It would make you happy so you would do it because that's what you want to do. And even under communism you have to work so that way you can make your contribution to society. Without work you wont get paid. No pay for voluntary unemployment. The economics of Marxism are totally sound. As for political parties, there is no reason why parties that promote alternative ideas such as capitalism will not be allowed to exist and function. The basic nature of government will not change, but instead of serving the rich corporate interests, it would serve the interests of the previously exploited peoples. As for the government becoming corrupt with wealth, the government would not just sit on the money like the rich do. It would be able to use the profits as either a source of income other than taxes, or just give everybody in the country a slice of the GDP as their salary. So do your reading and you will be able to find the real answers, rather than just swallowing the government's elitist propaganda.

Without freedom of speech, thought, and deed, even a paradise is still a prison, and castro is the warden.

All those are guaranteed in communism. The only right you don't possess is the right to accumulate wealth and use it to oppress your brothers.

In reply to truthspreader,

I think a million russians, and about a billion chinese would totally disagree with you on that last thought.

ehh.. i still think communism sucks. i think anyone in the world should have the right to accumulate wealth if he works hard and earns it. why should one man work his [censored] off and get the same thing as another man who doesn't work hard at all? that is NOT fair at all. if a man wants to work hard he should earn what he deserves.

ya know.. communism reminds of dirty hippies,at least in one aspect. and you all know how much i hate hippies. they all preach about equality. equality is some dream that no one will ever attain. give it up already and work on goals that can be achieved. (i know hippies are all about the peace no war thing too, but communists generally are not. that's why i didn't mention that.)

In reply to Fleshwound,

I agree with you on that first thought. As far as hippies go I believe they had some good ideas, but
they went about trying to achieve them in the wrong manner.

hehe.. i really don't see any merit to hippies ideas. doing drugs and sleeping around isn't too cool..neither is treating the vietnam vets like they are crap. but that is a whole other topic.

How dare you make such a moronic statement and then go on to call us uneducated or simply swallowing propoganda.

In reply to Fleshwound,

I was talking about some of their ideas on peace;
and as far as sleeping around and drugs go, I don't see much difference in todays society.

P.S. I support vietnam vets 100%.

dun dun dun... perg is angry! perhaps he'll make the face for me! even though it's not an angry face... just haven't seen it for awhile.


yeah.. i know i was generalizing about hippies. just cuz i don't like them. we can stop talking about them now though.

Agreed Fleshwound.

Nah, not angry at all. That's just a dumb thing to say, that's all

Again, if you would care to read any books actually written by the people who came up with the idea, you will learn that Stalinism is a total and complete corruption of communism. And if the Russians didn't like communism, even the perverted form, then why do over ninety percent of Russians say they wish for a return to the Soviet Union? And again if you knew what you were talking about you would know China's leaders sold themselves over to capitalism. Communism has saved the lives of millions around the world and made lives better for people in every country around the world in which even its perverted forms have been implemented. Look at Guatemala and see what unrestrained capitalism brings, or just look at the great depression. As for keeping what you earn, true communism gives you everything you need, while the vast majority of wealth and property are owned by a few people who do no real work. Sitting at a desk and meeting other rich people to congratulate each other for oppressing the poor masses around the globe. Those who actually make the products or perform the service are totally and completely dicked over.

Excuse my error, it sould read: while in capitalism the vast majority of wealth and property are owned by a few people who do no real work.

I hope you're not talking to me in those rebuttals. Because if you'll look back, I didn't discuss the problems or merits in communism or capitalism. I said that your statement, "Communism and socialism are purely democratic" was ridiculous.

I was addressing you, and you were discussing the merits and problems of communism or capitalism in your statement.

the idea of communism may be a decent one in the fact that everyone would be "equal". but you take the ideals of communism and put it into action in the real world and it just doesn't work. communism has NEVER been a successful form of government. look back through history. it hasn't not worked once.

communism allows for way too much corruption. the government officials have no one to answer too. just look to Russia since you mentioned it. there is so much organized crime there it's absurd. the mafia was pretty much running the show. while they still have huge ties to the government officials, it is not nearly as bad as it was under the communist form.

In total agreement Fleshwound.

truthspreader, I'd like to point that I didn't even make an argument on the subject. I just said that your statement was pretty stupid. So feel free to tell everybody whatever the hell you want, but don't give me any petty lectures on this bullshit, because frankly I don't give a [censored].