So who thinks we should invade iraq and take control of the whole middle east (or not)? they do have lots of oil. who wants to attack but is scared of repocussions such as them sending some chemical wepeons in responce. Who wants to atack and hopes they strike back?
<img border="0" alt="[Machine]" title="" src="graemlins/machine.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Bust a Cap]" title="" src="graemlins/cap.gif" />
How the hell would they strike back? They have no missle launchers. They have no money. All they have is oil and sand. Oooh ... frightening.
The UN wouldn't be down with that idea, no matter how crazy Bush the sequel is ... they wouldn't send checmical weapons over either. They would send some dumb-[censored] suicidal dude with a suit-case-bomb over here and blow maybe 15-30 people up.
Ever since we've been buying our oil from Canada and Russia we rely on the middle east less and less. I think we buy only 33% of our oil from them now.
The more I think about it the more it makes sense to invade, but that's probably wrong on a couple levels.
Oil can buy lot's of chemical weapons, and you should never underestimate, the power of stupid people in large numbers. There is no way to know what they will do if USA will invade Iraq.
Oh shutup. "Let's solve the world problems by creating more war!"
I say lets quit playing
declare the truth
Our policy is to ensure the jew nation is safe
pull all troops out and state, attack us again and we will kick [censored].
Send mass amounts of security and weapons to Isriale. If they fall after that... It wasn't meant to be. (Plus that means we aren't near the end according to the bible.
)
Tell all the countries in Europe bitching, to pay the world war II debt back they owe us. Or debuct it from what we owe them.
Tell Canada to go ahead and leagalise weed like they tryed to do a couple months ago and go into isolationism again. Let the world problems be thier own. Everyone wants to [censored] about the big bad U.S....
Fine pull all resources out of everywhere. Let them see just how bad we realy were. As for Sadam ..... Torture his [censored] for what he did to his own sons...
Actually Iraq does have missles, so does afganastan, back when the US was aideing them all. We gave them missiles which they presently use on our alli's in the middle east. Its quite ironic that we choose sides then discover we're on the wrong one then our ali's get hit with bombs with our flag on them though...
And they are neuculear and bi-chemical capable, they have been for a while, thats the whole issue with war, because they refuse the documents signed by the UN about the destruction of said weapons.
Iraq has been using chemical weapons against the kurds for years. The have some of the most advanced chemical weapons you've ever seen, not to mention the fact that we think they have nukes we just cant prove it yet.
Now that they do allow the un people again, no war on iraq, but Bush did already pick another country, Jemen "Or whatever it's written in english"...
tsss, let the war on terrorism go on...
/me snickers at what Learner said
heh heh, I see you're a bit more informed than many too.
According to the Bible, God will keep his promise to Abraham and the jews shall always have a nation.
Isreal kicks arabic [censored] man. It's not just our aid that's keeping them afloat. They've got one hella well trained army. I did a bit of historical research and this is what I've found:
"On May 15 [1948] the armies of Egypt, Transjordan (now Jordan), Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq joined Palestinian and other Arab guerrillas who had been fighting Jewish forces since November 1947. The war now became an international conflict, the first Arab-Israeli War." http://www.palestinehistory.com/wartext.htm Did ya catch that? 6 Arab nations all attacked Israel the moment it was founded. And Israel beat their asses.
Another interesting thing I found out... It was the BRITISH the originally marched into palestine and began the proceedings to make Israel a seperate state.
Seems the US isn't alone in "policing" the world.
Another historical source
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7374/isreal-jewish/ISREALI-ARAB_CONFLICT.HT ML
Well, I say let us stick with the military saying, "KILL EM ALL, LET GOD SORT EM OUT!" :+) ya Isreal is pretty bad [censored].
Heh... Do research on the sunken USS Liberty...
Isreal's got power, your right. Thats why were alies with them. and SR, in policing the world, were the by far the most involved.
So some say that bush wants to invade so he can steal oil, anyone think this is true? personaly i have a fealing it is, not nececarily a bad thing though
Some other quick Israel facts:
Independence wasn't only time Israel was atacked by all it's neighbors. Check up 6 Day Way and Yom Kippur War.
Also, the arabs did have a chance to create a palestinian nation when israel was created. They declined, thinking they could destroy Israel and have the whole area.
I agree with ohfuk, and IMO oil is probably what Bush is after. BTW, here is a good representation of that ideea
http://www.collideous.com/archives/00000137.php3
i don't want a war, and i do not believe one is currently necessary, but i do find it suspicious that iraq won't let weapons inspectors in. i believe they have agreed to let some weapons inspectors from other countries come in, thus i would lay back for the moment and make a decision based on the outcome of that.
SR, you're right, the British were the ones that ultimately started this. They promised both the Jews and Arabs land in Palestine to fight on their side. When the war ended, they couldn't deliver, so they just split it up. This is what caused the latest of fights. (There had been more before). The US then got involved later on. But before WWI, it was the British who tryed to control the world and did the exact same thing the US are doing right now.
ohfuk: "and SR, in policing the world, were the by far the most involved."
Your point? You think I don't know this? /me looks around. anybody living under a rock here? I think as the most powerful country in the world, that there is some responsibility in pressuring countries like Iraq to let weapon inspectors in - and to help prevent one nation from smacking another one off the face of the earth. So sue us if we're human and things get carried too far. So what if there are some bad motives mixed along with the good. Shove the [censored] off people. We're not Jesus [censored] Christ our Lord Savior.
If it wasn't us, it'd be somebody else. You should be counting your blessings we're not conquering the world.
oh sorry SR, i forgot that you arnt as [censored] stupid as the rest of the god damn world, there was a chance that you thought that this was a world effort when it isnt at all. and as the self declared most powerful nation on earth, i agree with you, if we dont act like cops, then the middle east might end up hating each other as much as they hate us and blow this planet into many different planets. so yes, we should be cops and if we have to pull out the beating sticks to get our point across then so be it.
I'd like to know where ohfuk gets his political information...and how old are ya there bud?
eh, good point. if i ever say anything that makes little to no sence tell me and ill stfu
Take it easy on ole ohfuk... I'm not one to usally stand up for peeps, but he is new to the board involved in a political debate. Hell of a way to start. Cut him some slack.
/me snickers at what Learner said
Yea SR the Israelie army is no joke. They use women as snipers because thier breathing is better than most men. Pretty hardcore. However there was no Israel till after WWII.
This is all my interperutation here...
See all the white people felt bad for all the dead jews. So they said hey, lets give them something. Alright all you arab people get off this land. This belongs to the Jews. Yea yea yea, your holy land. Nah it's thiers now.
See people tend to get the [censored] when you boot them off thier land. But boot them off thier holy land... I guess they figured it worked with american indians... Anyway
There never was an Israel befor WWII. Well there was but many centuries ago. Now add to that white boys keep going over there to "keep the peace".
People these people have fought for generations. This is what they do.
Check it out, Many U.S. Generals after any major war get depressed. Why? Because that is how they feel useful. Now imagine many nations with this mentality. Don't belive me? Rent the Movie Patton. Read up on any WWII General. Few went on to polotics. Many died soon after the war.
BinLaden knows war. That is it. He has learned studyed and planed war all of his adult life. Same with many of his followers.
He might even think he wants peace. But he will allwas find conflict.
Sadam Husien is a sick twisted [censored].
He used to torture his kids. Starve them, force them to watch torture movies. Force them to beat prisoners to death. They grew up to be well rounded people right? They are generals in his army.
Sadam was train by the U.S. Aint that a kick in the pants. Stingers are manufactured by the U.S. arms companies. Iraq has plenty of them. The fact of the matter is... We made a mess over there. It is time to clean it up.
Life isn't allways fair to everyone. Sadam's kids need to die so they do not come into power. Sadam needs to Die at the hands of his own people. (Or it needs to look that way)
These are the nasty details that happen that keep you safe at your home with mommy and daddy. There are ugly things in the world that our government must do to stay on top. Now do you want to stay on top? Or do you want to be a bleeding heart liberal and go to Iraq and tell them how much you understand?
[censored] them! If you don't like it... Don't watch the news. That is the way of the world. Our nation is on top in power and strength. To not kick [censored] after 9/11 weakens that power and strength.
Think of the world and it's leaders like the kids on the playground. Let the bully beat you up what happens? It spreads till no one respects you. Childish? Yup, but that is how it works. Read up on Regan and how many countries [censored] with him and what happened to them. Read up on the terrorist prisoners held captive till the day he was elected.
Power and firmness speeks volumes about how the worl treats your nation.
It is real simple:
Have one Trident SSBN launch one missile with five or six warheads.
Everyone knows if you heat sand up you will get glass.
So after the Nukes turn Iraq into a glass parking lot we can go over,
make a nice cut into the glass put oil rig with a seal around it and start pumping.
If we have a spill the oil will run onto the glass where it can be cleaned up and save the environment.
Now everybody will be happy:
Bush � Saddam is gone.
Bush � all his buddy�s get more oil.
Environmentalist � if there is an oil spill it will not sink into the ground water.
Me � cheaper gas.
Navy � they get to op-check the sub and missile launch system.
Le4rner - FYI you can blame England for most of it, below is a little reading on how it started and why it is still going on:
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/index.html
/me just stares at Mad Max
OK. Trying to recollect what I know
IRAN-IRAQ war
US knows that we need to crush IRAN before they can take over the oil-producing countries that are with us.
We give IRAQ large amounts of ammo, helicopters, etc.
IRAQ also "just happens" to request biochemical samples such as sarin, anthrax, etc. (Pretty much the ones bush listed that we KNOW they have). The US gave these to IRAQ w/o questions.
We also provided IRAQ with satellite photos of IRAN that would show exactly where the troops were.
These helicopters supposedly given to fight the war, were also used to gas thousands of Kurds. The US attempted to blame this on IRAN, until it was revealed our satellites also took images of IRAQ doing it.
So we see that the US gave Saddam the power, the weaponry, the biochemical weapons, and accepted terrorism b/c they did not want to lose a precious oil location.
So I think the whole terrorism slant to this is bullshit. The US performs terrorism all the time, and they have accepted a great many countries that have done it also.
We are attacking IRAQ b/c Bush has to do what his daddy didn't. Also, I think by the time "we" (Bush) are done, the Middle East will have even more corrupt leaders and instability.
Why? Just like with Bin Laden, the US will look for someone that can serve our needs and not the needs of the people. We don't care how unjust a ruler might be, as long as he can be bought by us.
Oh yeah, IRAQ also caught previous UN weapon inspectors @ restricted places, and later discovered the US had actually planted spy's as UN inspectors. The source for this was 2 previous IRAQ UN inspectors
US also trained, and financed Bin Laden during the Russian opcupation of Afganistan. It's kinda funny that we got to these countrys to fight them for being "terrorists" and we see our weapons aimed at us. Also I find it odd that Bush had planed on removing the Afganistan government before 9/11 for political friendly enviroment for the oil pipe line he is now building through Afganistan to avoid IRAN.
I would love to know why 3,000 jewish workers did not go to work in the WTC on 9/11. I also want to know why no one can truely confirm who the terrorists were in the planes.
So now we fight another musslim nation. A "terrorist state". We empowered Sadam to the position he is in now. As jonconley said above, we gave them all the weapons and training that we are now saying he is using for evil.
I don't trust the Bush administration for a second anymore. Did you know Ashcroft had a commercial flight the day of 9/11, but last minute changed it to a more expensive private commuter flight?
I know paranioa runs rampant on the net.... But honestly people... I smell smoke. Lets look at things shall we,
early on in the bush administration they decided they wanted to run an oil pipe through afganistan. But realised the government in power then would tell them to get bent. They decided they would have to over throw the government. Before 9/11 think anyone would have let that happen? After 9/11 Bush never mentioned he already had planed to do this. Now he addmits it? 9/11 seems like a political god send dosen't it?
fast forward to 9/11. Ashcroft has a flight that day. Lst minute he pay much more money to change to a private commuter flight. First people rounded up cheering as the WTC fell were Isrealies. Later found to be Spy's for the Isrealie government. Fox and CNN ran the story only to pull it later due to the government classifying the info.
FBI, CIA, NSA get loads of power and no longer have to ask to spy on ANYONE. Bush gets to finish daddys work. And now we are building that pipe line.
For such a tragedy many are coming out well.
JON WHERE THE [censored] HAVE YOU BEEN MO FO glad your still here, ko yes, war on iraq..hmmm ya its gonna happen.
"I would love to know why 3,000 jewish workers did not go to work in the WTC on 9/11."
Tell me you were'nt serious.
" First people rounded up cheering as the WTC fell were Isrealies. Later found to be Spy's for the Isrealie government. Fox and CNN ran the story only to pull it later due to the government classifying the info."
I won't bother arguing this because you know what I'll say, but I'm curious, where the hell do you get this shitty information?
please....people let the topic r.i.p.. If you want to see learners point of view go to
www.whatreallyhappened.com If you want to see the point of view of the majority of americans go to cnn.com or some other normal news site. this topic died 3 weeks ago. leave it be
oooooo, i might get to kill some people !!!!
ill have to make some calls and find out.....
Research it yourself man. TBG... I am alot of things but you should know I'm not a liar. Maybe a bit hot headed. You should also know I am Pro American (well free america) Look it up for real man.
I also heard the thing about the 3000 Jews not showing up for work that day, and the Israeli's cheering, and various Government officials choose to cancel their flying plans for that day. I have heard a shitload more of infomation like this, but I don't want another 'Waco' occuring on my front lawn so I will let you find the info yourself... Just remember kids; Ariel Sharon loves you very much.
Zionism = Nazism
http://www.aztlan.net/
It was the Paleastinians cheering, not the Israelis...dur.
dashocker.....
Do you even know what we are talking about? They picked them up for questioning. They were Israelis standing outside the WTC cheering.
is it true that right now that army draft thing is not in efect but if there is a actual war over there that bush will put the draft thing in opeartion again? cuz i forgot what president it was that stopped that, so drafts cant be done, but my sub at school told us that yeah if there is one bush will put it in effect to draft when it is needed.
speaking of which...i just got my car registered and on one of the forms it was required to check a box that would allow the military to have my information in case of a draft and i said, why do i need to fill this out, there is no draft. the lady behind the counter said something quite incoherent. Because it said that my registration would be trashed if i didnt allow this i checked it and my dad signed. It aplies to all under age 26, that means you!(probably). so im thinking that the bush administration has somthing planned......
You're legally required (has been for some time now) to sign up for the draft on or around the date of your 18th birthday.
[censored] thing is, I will always remember the day i signed up for that [censored], September 11th at 1:30am PST, about 2:30 hours before the terrorists attacks, i was scared shitless lol...
Look at it this way, 26-30 year olds go first
.
right, your legally required to apply for the draft even when a war is not going on. good way to keep from being drafted is to go to college. army tends to choose the high school drop outs to serve in the trenches before taking america's college students. also, try saying your religion prohibits you from fighting, it may not get you out of serving in the army, but you might atleast get a desk job. however, in my opinion, i don't think there ever will be another draft. with the increase in technology, wars are being fought by pushing buttons to launch bombs opposed to sending thousands of soldiers to their death. thus, there shouldn't be a real need for a draft.
right...thats probably why the draft isnt in effect.....but your still required to sign up...
People... The U.S. has not been at war since the Korean War. That is a fact. Congress has to vote to decalre a war. So you say what about Vietnam, Desert Storm, Bosnia, Afganistan,
All police acts.
What am I getting at? Rules do not apply in acts of war people. If they want to draft. They will just write a new law. If they want a war, but can't call it war.. They write a new law saying we can do this if these actions apply, then it isn't a war, it is a police action.
In the 60's they didn't take collage students... But who is to say they will not now? Wana know if you are at risk...
Lets see
If you are a male between 18 to 35 you are at risk.
That is it people. That is all they need. Live bodies to fire, attack and hold ground by force.
You will allways need a foot soldier. Bombs do not reach far into caves. Nor can they look for man made tunnles. They take out main guns(you hope) and air defense, then either
Airassualt
or
Airborne
in thier troops and supplies. As much that changes on a battle field there will allways be a need for troops. They guard airfields, Fule supplies, Hold key land, sight targets, supply allies, and can with pin point accruacey take out the enemy. Bombs are a bult tool
Soldiers are your fine toothed comb.
Thank god i am a [censored] up individual, all else fails i'll go to a mental hospetal
...
well I don't normally like to give this website out, but there's some good arguments on this topic, spicifically preventing war
Learner you should be particurilly interested in what KazAr (some name like that) has to say
http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/sh...82d43e296b6b9880ebb17&threadid=28167 www.fearbush.com good one too